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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
531
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Posted - 2013.10.02 15:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
What make sme most happy is that there is very few thigns left before rise can start thinking about how to make the Huggin into something that is not a random abortion of mixed things all over the place. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
531
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Posted - 2013.10.02 15:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:@CCP Rise how much do i have to pay you to slip fixing the Curse/Pilgrim in with these fine ships (as they are the only Recons that really need help at all - the others function fairly well)
Nope the huggin is all wrong with the mixing of weapon systems. Need to be bellicosed a bit (made in to full missile boat) |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
532
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Posted - 2013.10.02 15:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
base sig bonus is better than MWD one. Because allows me to use AB that with a long range web is VEEERY good.
Hyena is great now.
Keres and kitsune have cap bonuses because their ewar uses alot of cap and their ewar is FAR more pwoerful because they can cancel ANY ship type, contrary to neuts that do not harm minmatar much and to webs that are almos tirrelevant for caldari. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
533
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Posted - 2013.10.02 16:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:
So yeah, these are good for griefing solo pvpers while abusing skirmish links, but terrible for actual gang ewar.
This
Durign years we asked for better support for solo or pairs PVP and now you complain that we get it? |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
533
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Posted - 2013.10.02 16:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Zarnak Wulf wrote:I remember when interceptors used to have a 5% sig radius reduction bonus before the great nano nerf of 2009 I remember that. My zealot could hit orbiting crows, no tracking mods or anything. So yeah, these are good for griefing solo pvpers while abusing skirmish links, but terrible for actual gang ewar.
Taht because due to the stupid speeds of 12 km/s these crows were orbiting at 50 km!!! Otherwise I call BS because nubmers show this to be impossible. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
534
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Posted - 2013.10.02 16:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Michael Harari wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:
So yeah, these are good for griefing solo pvpers while abusing skirmish links, but terrible for actual gang ewar.
This Durign years we asked for better support for solo or pairs PVP and now you complain that we get it? Being broken as **** is okay if it's in the name of solo/small gang?
They ar enot broken as #!@#!@ . They are still situational. They are all very fragile and will die to any light drones you send for them, they can barely pierce a wet paper bag with their firepower, so they are still going to work better supporting another ship, not solo. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
534
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Posted - 2013.10.02 16:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
Milton Middleson wrote:I have to agree with the people predicting extremely obnoxious linked kiting setups. In the context of solo frigate battles, range control and ewar >>> everything else. The only thing you'll need to worry about is your crippled DPS failing to kill the target before reinforcements arrive.
My gut says these ships still lack survivability in even small gang fights. The Hyena and Sentinel, especially, since they have to operate at a closer range than the Keres or Kitsune.
You mean like when the passive regen of a Moa can ignore your DPS? |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
534
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Posted - 2013.10.02 17:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:Harvey James wrote:very disappointing..
- sig radius is still far too high for frigs - tank is still underwhelming considering the T1 resists - i was hoping for more combat capability like mini combat recons - maybe keres and sentinel could get some drone damage bonuses - Hyena and kitsune could get some missile bonuses - web and point ranges are already too high on Recons .... - more ecm range is that really needed? can the kitsune even lock that far? - 80% neut range seems excessive
overall more combat capability over long range e-war.... that's surely the permit of cruisers?? They only really had two ways to go. Make the ships super durable and survivable at their current ranges or increase their range to approximate that of the recon ships. CCP went with the second option. As such they need some weaknesses and I guess the sig radii drew the short straw. The Keres and Sentinel are adequate. The fear factor on them is greatly increased but it had nowhere to go but up, no? The Kitsune is one of a few boats with an e-war optimal bonus. That alone is a niche. With the new lock range, a sensor booster, and an ionic field projector rig or two you'll see this thing at 100km - 150km. I guess balance is only having three jammers. They Hyena really needs the MWD cap reduction bonus or you'll only see the thing with links or coupled with a Keres.
Meeh i rpefer now because i can use my hyena with AB with no shame on my soul. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
534
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Posted - 2013.10.03 00:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:Damn... so... Sentinel? Wow, that's insanely epicly going to be OP, awesome until then though.
OP only compared to the competition though, the Hyena, Keres, and Kitsune will remain "meh" for the time being.
Hyena is better, but I don't see it being that great. A 3% per level bonus? No other ship has anything nearly that pitiful, and on sig radius reduction of all things? C'mon CCP... I mean its ok, but I'd rather fly an AF like a Blarpy.
This thread seems to be one big collective "Meh" aside from the Sentinel.
That is not the weak bonus. The RANGE to target painter is the pathetic bonus. IT puts the base optimal about same as lock range.. so the huge falloff of the painter is wasted.
I woudl prefer the painter range bonus reduced to 5% and the signature bonus increased to 5% per level. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
534
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Posted - 2013.10.03 00:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
Setsune Rin wrote:i dont quite get the wording on the first EAF skill bonus, how can something go to +80% with 40% per level?
USED t be 40% now is 80%
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
534
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Posted - 2013.10.03 00:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ju0ZaS wrote:Solid overall. But does the Hyena really need longer webs than a rapier. I mean, they're annoying as it is for kite ships. Now a pasky frigs will be able to web you from even further. Perhaps 40% as the Rapier and Hugin currently have would be fine and also maybe considering to bump down the bonus for both this and the recons to 30% per level would be a good idea?
Minmatar already sacrifice bonuses with the weakest of ALL e war ( painters) it sfair that they have a STRONG power on the other ewar.
Or how many rapiers use TP? THe hyena will fly with 2 bonus NEVER used. BEcause is always better to carry a secodn web than a target painter. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
535
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Posted - 2013.10.03 10:48:00 -
[12] - Quote
The more I look the more I get convinced that CCP shoudl stop mixign WEB and paitner bonuses. Because 95% of time people will dropt he painter to put and extra web. THe paitner is naturally much weaker e-war than any other.
That basically means hyena has only 1 bonus (since the 3% signature bonus is somethign that coudl be very well in the hull initial value and probably already accounted by not giving hyean same signature as it would have otherwise).
So Hyena is a ship with 1 very strong bonus and 3 fake bonuses.
I do nto knwo hwo to fix it. But Target painters mixed with webs are not gonna win much place. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
535
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Posted - 2013.10.03 10:53:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kesthely wrote:
Hyena's Ewar capabilites allow you to slow down and increase the size of a ship so dramaticly that any ship approaching your fleet within 35 km (almost double with faction webs / links) knows its doomed. With an effective paint up to 80 ish km you can increase the kiting gangs damage application by nearly double that of normal.
Problem is painting at 80 km is not that useful, because you will want to be within web range (your web range) and at that range its just better to bring yet another web. Also peopel wil not fit much of faction webs on these, they are too fragile, the fction webs will renain in the rapiers.
I would love if the target painter range obnus would be swapped for anything... a 5% AB speed bonus woudl be my personal choice :P
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
535
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Posted - 2013.10.03 11:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
sytaqe violacea wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote: I would love if the target painter range obnus would be swapped for anything... a 5% AB speed bonus woudl be my personal choice :P
I think 5% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level is more proper.
Yes but that would likely generate a grand uproar. That coudl work if the range bonus was mage 60% per level and not 80% |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
535
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Posted - 2013.10.03 12:16:00 -
[15] - Quote
Chessur wrote:
there is no reason not to include it. If you don't fit faction webs to your rapier, you are either bad at game and poor- or bad at game.... and just bad.
completely different to faction web a rapier and ahyena. Hyena will die 50 times more. Its can be easily insta popped. You woudl be wastign isk most of time using faction webs on it.
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
536
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Posted - 2013.10.03 12:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Chessur wrote:
there is no reason not to include it. If you don't fit faction webs to your rapier, you are either bad at game and poor- or bad at game.... and just bad.
completely different to faction web a rapier and ahyena. Hyena will die 50 times more. Its can be easily insta popped. You woudl be wastign isk most of time using faction webs on it. Hyena is probably just as survivable as a huginn, since it goes twice as fast and has a third of the sig
Still too vulnerable to simple things as artie ruptures at very start of engagements etc... rapiers are much harder to vanihs from battlefield sicne they usually live long enoguh for logis to save them. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
540
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Posted - 2013.10.03 19:22:00 -
[17] - Quote
Goldensaver wrote:Sofia Wolf wrote:Claims that new EAS are overpowered are IMHO unfounded.
I might disagree with you specifically concerning the Sentinel. I've done a little playing on EFT with the current one, which fits just the same as the future one, but with some small changes: [Sentinel, test] Damage Control II Drone Damage Amplifier II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Script Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 200 Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I Warp Disruptor II Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I Small Diminishing Power System Drain I Small Egress Port Maximizer I Small Trimark Armor Pump I Warrior II x4 Warrior II x8 Post buff stats: ~3500 EHP, cap stable with everything but the NOS running (you probably won't have something to drain if you're neuting the other guy), 80 DPS, 30km neuts neuting 108/cycle, ~2700m/s, it *should* be cap stable running at least 1 neut, the tracking disruptor and the warp disruptor without the cap booster after patch. Basically what it comes down to is if it has turrets and is within 30km range of you, it's likely about to die a slow and horrible death. It'll have no cap to chase/kill you with, its guns won't be able to shoot anything, including your drones, and it will die as everything shuts down and your drones pick it apart.
Sentinel neuts should NOT outrange battleship neuts. THey should have same range!!!! |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
540
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Posted - 2013.10.03 19:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
Baali Tekitsu wrote:Hyenas are going to be THE thing to run capital escalations, you read it here first.
The issue is that the range to painter is not very useful since most of the time you will want to be within 35 km to use web as well.
Painters never had issues with range. So the bonus is a weak one. A 5% range one but with a better bonus to sig radius would be more useful. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
544
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Posted - 2013.10.04 11:26:00 -
[19] - Quote
Major Killz wrote:Honestly I have no idea why players are suggesting a Sentinel and Keres can be exploded by a battleship so easily.
When I've rocked the aforementioned ships I tend to be able to lock down most direct combat ships above destroyers. The Keres and Sentinel have always been the most useful in fleets and survivable. Both ships can be armored or shield tanked.
Example:
[Keres, K] Damage Control II Micro Auxiliary Power Core I Overdrive Injector System II
Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I Medium Shield Extender II Warp Disruptor II
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, EMP S 125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, EMP S
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Warrior II x1
As I've said. The Keres and or Sentinel can lock down at least one ship. Often you'll only have to deal with removing said ships drones. THE ONLY THING THAT WOULD MAKE SENSE IS TO MAKE THE SLIGHTLY MORE SURVIVABLE.
note: i would make an exception for the Hyena and I would focus on increasing its stasis webifier Range ONLY.
depend on the battleship, a dominix or armageddon would just swallow them and spit the remains out.
But they could **** of a lot an abaddon for example.
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
544
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Posted - 2013.10.04 11:29:00 -
[20] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:I must confess... while I like these changes I'm also a fair bit leery.
There is already quite a bit of Ewar shenanigans in low-sec... the Faction War areas especially. I can definitely see Keres, Sentinels, Hyenas soloing various frigates and destroyers from ~30+ km away... the latter two especially as the Sentinel won't have much to fear outside of Light Missile ships and the Hyena will simply live up to it's name and laugh while double webbing everything from well beyond frigate/destroyer engagement range.
Perhaps reduce a speed on them a fair bit? These ships are going to be engaging at extreme range (relative to frigates) regardless of the situation (as any proper Ewar boat should)... they need a more serious drawback besides being "fragile" (with high enough speed you can be as fragile as you want to be... few people are going to hit you).
What? You realize a thrasher with arties is NOT outside engagement range at around 24 km? YEs.. 24 km because you will not solo anything if you cannot POINT it as well.
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
546
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Posted - 2013.10.04 13:53:00 -
[21] - Quote
Major Killz wrote:Kagura Nikon
Provided a Keres can lock a dominix or Armageddon before being locked. Drones will not agress the Keres. Arguments can be made that the Dominix or Armageddon would drop drones first. No doubt that would be wise. However, provided the Keres can destroy a single flight of drones. The aforementioned would still occur. NO damage being applied to the Keres and the Keres holding said ships indefinitely.
A Keres is able to "point" something @ 36,000m without overheating. 2 Dampers applied to an Armageddon or Dominix will lower their locking range to around 18,000m
Anyway.
Like I stated before. The Keres, Kitsune, and Sentinel are capable of removing damage of or holding MOST ships on grid INDEFINITELY.
On another note. I agree with what someone else suggested. I brought up the idea that electronic attack frigates overall velocity should be reduced. All of them should not exceed 2000 m/sec. I also wanted to increase their survivability to give others something be happy about but maybe they SHOULD be EVEN less survivable like ShahFluffers suggested.
Wnat to try? because the changes of now ar ento relevant.. the keres already drop non booster battleship lock ranges to udner dampeners range and under current lock range.
So this scenario of your swould already happen all the time.... |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
546
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Posted - 2013.10.04 13:55:00 -
[22] - Quote
Major Killz wrote:Kagura Nikon
Provided a Keres can lock a dominix or Armageddon before being locked. Drones will not agress the Keres. Arguments can be made that the Dominix or Armageddon would drop drones first. No doubt that would be wise. However, provided the Keres can destroy a single flight of drones. The aforementioned would still occur. NO damage being applied to the Keres and the Keres holding said ships indefinitely.
A Keres is able to "point" something @ 36,000m without overheating. 2 Dampers applied to an Armageddon or Dominix will lower their locking range to around 18,000m
Anyway.
Like I stated before. The Keres, Kitsune, and Sentinel are capable of removing damage of or holding MOST ships on grid INDEFINITELY.
On another note. I agree with what someone else suggested. I brought up the idea that electronic attack frigates overall velocity should be reduced. All of them should not exceed 2000 m/sec. I also wanted to increase their survivability to give others something be happy about but maybe they SHOULD be EVEN less survivable like ShahFluffers suggested.
Slower than a cruiser would make them USELES.
The infinite lockdown already exists.. a current keres can already hold a BC forever. How many times you seen that happen? |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
546
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Posted - 2013.10.04 14:27:00 -
[23] - Quote
Henk Brombir wrote:The keres needs to be able to use 5 drones with a 25M2 drone bay max. For the rest the changes seem ok to me
oo and the hyena then should be able to field 5 t2 small arties? |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
546
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Posted - 2013.10.04 14:40:00 -
[24] - Quote
Major Killz wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:[quote=Major Killz]Kagura Nikon
Slower than a cruiser would make them USELES.
The infinite lockdown already exists.. a current keres can already hold a BC forever. How many times you seen that happen? I'm not sure if you're agreeing by attempting to repeat what I was stating or trying to refute whatever. To be clear. Tracking Disruptors and Sensor Dampeners are effective irrespective of bonuses. Which is and has been a problem for awhile now. I'm also against what I see as "OVERLAP". A ship or classes of ships doing the EXACT SAME THING. As far as the Velocity of a support ship being low relative to cruisers. What of it? That's what fitting overdrive and nanofibers is for. I have in fact used the Keres and Sentinel. One in fleets and the other solo. So yeah I'm fairly sure I can hold certain ships indefinitely or remove their ability to project damage significantly. I WANT DAMPERS AND TRACKING DISRUPTORS NERFED HARD. I'm not in favor of putting another ship or class of ship out there to abuse said mechanics. Anyway. There have been suggestions a Keres or Sentinel would explode if 1 single battleship. Clearly that's not the case. Things will be an issue in scaled engagements with multiple opponents but recons have that same issue. Especially if they're not supported by logistics. Some other dude suggested high signature was the reason he didn't use a electronic attack frigate. So I'm assuming you'd like an interceptor/assault like bonus to electronic attack frigates? So why fly an interceptor tat that point? For what immunity to warp disruption bubbles? In an actual engagements I'd rather have the long warp disruptor (36,000m) and offensive electronic warfare (remote sensor dampeners). It would literally do a lot more for the fleet than an interceptor would. Also in scaled engagements there tend to be support ships. Loki's, Proteus, Rapiers and or Arazu's. Interceptors tend to explode a lot in scaled engagements PERIOD. Even though they have low signatures. It's hard to reduce incoming damage from multiple directions. Some ships are going to hit you. So, the point is ALL FRIGATES HAVE ISSUES IN SCALED ENGAGEMENTS WITH REGARD TO SURVIVABILITY IRReSPECTIVE OF BONUSES TO SHIP SIGNATURE. Anyway. I've already said what I wanted to say and I'm just repeating myself. Moving on and I'll just continue to read other players opinions in this thread.
2k ms you can fit all your lows with nanofibers and minmatar t1 cruisers would still eat you for breakfast in seconds. In fact the sleipnir can almost catch you.
They can be made slower, but not so much.
I Am on opposite view, i like d more in the past where not only decicated ships coudl fit some ewar. Now the metagame is much more limited because you are NOT going to see ECM, or track disruptors or damps on a non bonused ship, except in very very very rare situations.
When the unbonused ewar was nerfed, that was when the tempest lost its OMPH!!.
My point on the current situation is that doomsayers, calling that keres will be able to shutdown all form of solo pvp are wrong, because they would already have this capability agaisnt most ships as of TODAY, yet their usage is rare.
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
564
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Posted - 2013.10.07 16:58:00 -
[25] - Quote
Lexiana Del'Amore wrote:The Keres needs both a higher bandwidth and larger drone bay...
KERES Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15 / 30
otherwise nice changes
Would be too powerful since keres has the stronggest Ewar (the ewar that always win over the other ewars) "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
566
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Posted - 2013.10.09 09:58:00 -
[26] - Quote
Major Killz wrote:Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Would you move high slots around or just have..... 2-3 high slots for the hyena, keres, kitsune?
Rearranging slots would in fact benefit these ships. For example leaving all electronic attack ships with 1 - 2 high slots. Moving 1 or 2 high slots to mid or low. Which would help overall velocity or tank. You know, slot rearrangement is clearly the safest way to improve or NERF a ship or class of ship. Truly empowering the players by leaving innovation to THEM and BOOSTING the level customization (adding to the sandbox). Instead of relying on some poorly run team with terrible ideas v0v Does a Sentinel need more tank? Give it one more low or mid slot and remove 1 high slot. Do you want to NERF the Drake? Remove 2 low or 2 high slots. Is there a need to mess around with bonuses, ship velocity, shield or armor amount, and agility? No! Just allow the players to use another module to ADJUST what they DO NOT LIKE.
On the case of the sentinel in specific removing high slots nerf their ewar.. so that is a bit mor complicated than in hte other frigates. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
567
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Posted - 2013.10.09 14:33:00 -
[27] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Alright you win !
Yesterday spent some time talking internally and I think I'm going to make some tweaks to tone them down a little. Not sure exactly what the numbers will be yet and I'm not in the office today but I'll post here letting you know when we work something out.
Thanks for the help
PLease.. be gentle.. nerf a bit. Do not hit it with the same bat you have hit the hurricane please. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
567
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Posted - 2013.10.09 16:21:00 -
[28] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Alright you win !
Yesterday spent some time talking internally and I think I'm going to make some tweaks to tone them down a little. Not sure exactly what the numbers will be yet and I'm not in the office today but I'll post here letting you know when we work something out.
Thanks for the help This was probably a mistake. The ships are flown less than titans, they need a significant buff: most of their strengths on paper turn out to not compensate for being a frigate with no real survivability.
that is more of a statement that titans need to be massively nerfed than anythign else :P
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
573
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Posted - 2013.10.09 18:48:00 -
[29] - Quote
Junko Sideswipe wrote:Rise, just do what you think is right, don't let these nerds get to you.
If that happened all time we would have eneded with a tempest slower than amarr battleships and with sig radius larger than maesltrom. Luckly the nerds made him change his mind.
Peopel fail to realize a lot of the merit on the ship changes are shared between the developers and the people that bring up consistent argument at the forums on why the changes are good or not. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
579
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Posted - 2013.10.11 15:42:00 -
[30] - Quote
CCP never makes a specialized ship to be GOOD solo. At most viable. The best you can expect is a ship that paired with another one might be GOOD. Or you can go generalistic ships like the t1 cruisers. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
579
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Posted - 2013.10.11 15:48:00 -
[31] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:CCP Rise wrote: I expect that those of you hoping to use these will be a little disappointed, while those of expecting to fight against them might not think this is enough. Hopefully that means we are fairly close to a good spot for them. Regardless, please let me know what you think.
I'm giving this latest iteration 0 points out of 10.
7 of 10. Altough I think the keres coudl very well have a tiny bit more range on the point.
Also target painter range is USELESS!!!
Hyena is a ship with 2 bonuse sonly. That is a shame. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
579
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Posted - 2013.10.11 16:50:00 -
[32] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:I'll put the drone back on the Sentinel.
dammm I had to fight way more for you to give 5ms on the tempest :P "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
581
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Posted - 2013.10.12 00:14:00 -
[33] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:To explain why to give back the drone so quickly - I think looking at the Sentinel relative to the rest of the class it seems unfairly allocated for offense, and we didn't intend for the class to be self sufficient offensively. That said, if that drone feels make or break to the people using it in a small niche, I don't think it's having a very impact outside the niche and therefor don't see a need to remove it.
I think the debate about the Sentinel's power overall is much more centered on the neut range, as others have said, but I actually don't think it needs to be shorter range. Energy war is powerful of course, but it doesn't have the same kind of binary and pronounced impact that the rest of the EAFs can have with disruptors/webs/ECM.
Still sentinel neut range shoulf be closer tolarge neuts "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
581
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Posted - 2013.10.16 09:58:00 -
[34] - Quote
Sister Sophia wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Keres: Signature radius: 43(-12) These changes are really going to complicate the small frig ecosystem in lowsec. And I think that's great. I'm looking forward to the challenge. But I'd say we'll need some new counter-moves to the inevitable gangs of EA frigs + cockbag thrashers sitting in plexes and on gates. To reiterate and modify an idea from earlier: Can we consider giving covops frigs a heavy missile option (in addition to the current torps)? They are very fragile and expensive. So I doubt they will be overused or overpowered. But at least with heavy missiles, they will have a chance either to snipe EA frigs if the pilot (or alt) is half asleep or to at least force them off the field for a while. I hope I'm calculating this correctly so please correct me if I'm wrong. But a Keres using its MWD should have a sig radius of 205m. Precision torps have an explosion radius of 405m. So they still won't be that useful against a Keres. On the other hand, heavy missiles, with their explosion radius of between 125 and 215m will still be effective. Even a rack of three won't be able to single-shot the EA frig. And that's perfectly fine. But they will pose a threat. At the very least the keres will be forced to redirect its ewar at the covops to cope. Of course, combat inties can quickly catch and kill a covops frig (heavy missiles or no). So the outcome, I think, should be a paper-scisors-rock game with pilot skill and situational awareness as the determining factor. I just wonder whether heavy missiles would make the covops too great a threat to cruiser-sized ships. Dunno. That's my suggestion for some balance anyway.
They are called rapid missile launcher caracals... or rapid missile lanucher bellicoses. They can murder those frigs, at least enoguh to kill far more than their own cost before being subjugated. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
590
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Posted - 2013.10.22 11:36:00 -
[35] - Quote
Dani Lizardov wrote:the hyena need more web range 60% will be ok
30 km before overheat is not enough for you?
What the hyena need is a second bonus.. because the other 3 bonuses are fake ones. NO one will use target painters on them, they will just bring another web instead!!!
Specially the target pain range bonus, that makes the target paitner range... logner than the ship lock range :/ And can only be used outside the main funciton of the ship.. webbing. THe TP range bonus is among the least useful and least well tought bonuses in recent eve history.
Keep the MWD cap usage and you woudl keep it stronger. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
590
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Posted - 2013.10.22 11:39:00 -
[36] - Quote
Sister Sophia wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Keres: Signature radius: 43(-12) These changes are really going to complicate the small frig ecosystem in lowsec. And I think that's great. I'm looking forward to the challenge. But I'd say we'll need some new counter-moves to the inevitable gangs of EA frigs + cockbag thrashers sitting in plexes and on gates. To reiterate and modify an idea from earlier: Can we consider giving covops frigs a heavy missile option (in addition to the current torps)? They are very fragile and expensive. So I doubt they will be overused or overpowered. But at least with heavy missiles, they will have a chance either to snipe EA frigs if the pilot (or alt) is half asleep or to at least force them off the field for a while. I hope I'm calculating this correctly so please correct me if I'm wrong. But a Keres using its MWD should have a sig radius of 205m. Precision torps have an explosion radius of 405m. So they still won't be that useful against a Keres. On the other hand, heavy missiles, with their explosion radius of between 125 and 215m will still be effective. Even a rack of three won't be able to single-shot the EA frig. And that's perfectly fine. But they will pose a threat. At the very least the keres will be forced to redirect its ewar at the covops to cope. Of course, combat inties can quickly catch and kill a covops frig (heavy missiles or no). So the outcome, I think, should be a paper-scisors-rock game with pilot skill and situational awareness as the determining factor. I just wonder whether heavy missiles would make the covops too great a threat to cruiser-sized ships. Dunno. That's my suggestion for some balance anyway.
Eve was never designed to be balanced within a single ship class. The counter to frigs are dictors and some specialized cruisers.
Also these frigates are almsot usles solo (except the sentinel). A keres would never killa punisher with active tank.. both woudl sit there forever...
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
591
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Posted - 2013.10.22 23:26:00 -
[37] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:Zarnak Wulf wrote:That is a very thin line to go from 'never gets used' to 'OMGWTFBBQOP' This ! IMO people here just hate EWAR so much they prefer these EAF to stay in their current TQ state than risking to see them flying. Listening to them, they already are OP...
EWAR is one of the few thigns that can make eve cobmat inrteresting. THe other one is speed. DPS and TANK are the BORING part of combat "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
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Posted - 2013.10.28 09:55:00 -
[38] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:I had hoped at some point they'd rebalance caldari t2 ewar boats to use target painters, as they're more directly applicable to missiles, and the other races get 2 bonuses. Sadly, this will probably not come to pass.
wnat to get our TargetPaitner bonuses on the CREcon Cruisers? Feel free. Just give us ANY bonus on its place. Even lasers usa bonus woudl be better :/
TP bonus is nearly wasted when you ahve a web bonus as well, because the web will always have precedence. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
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Posted - 2013.10.29 15:31:00 -
[39] - Quote
Urkhan Law wrote:Enough with the TPs. Just remove all TP bonus from ALL ships, and buff TPs. Despite being a *force multiplier* of some sort, designing ships around TPs ends up in a complete disaster most of the time (poor vigil).
beign a force multiplier doe snto mean its good. Multiply your force by 0 and you wont be in a good place :P
And No webs do not go well with painters. They fight for same slots, and a second web is 99.9% of time better than a painter.
Also the paintere range bonus is STUPID, because the hyena will operate in the range limit of its WEB range, that is already inside the normal painter range.
Just remove the fake paitner range bonus.. and give us 5% more cowbell per level! "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
635
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Posted - 2013.11.05 09:14:00 -
[40] - Quote
AnJuan Jackson wrote:Can I just bring up that since when is a laser pointer considered electronic warfare?
Always felt the Minmatar got shafted when the CCP Gods were handing that out. Yay Target painters.
Though the double Statsis webbed Loki was the only redeeming thing to that trend. Thank you for that. Because if we got stuck with target painters I'd completely give up on the minnies.
Not only that, but on ships with the web bonus, the painter bonuses are irrelevant, because adding another web will be better in 95% of scenarios. |
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
645
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Posted - 2013.11.06 14:50:00 -
[41] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:so are these finished now no more changes or what? sentinel same range neuts as curse is OP the other EAF don't get the same capability as the recons and rightly so ....
I still think the role and emphasis of these EAF are wrong.. mini recons focused on the short range e-war is what people want and prefer ... T1 e-war frigs should be the long range focused ship.
this would remove the overlap which you stated in OP you wanted to avoid.. and still no role bonus why???? .. all T2 ships have a role bonus or should have one being role based ships...
He already explained why the sentinel is more POWERFUl. Because its a ship with much weaker capability to support larger ships into neutralizing other ships. A keres can be devastating in a small gang, being able to cancel a battleship of enemy fleet even. A sentinel, would be almsot irrelevant if its bonuses were not upped to this level.
That comes from fact that Webs, Damps and ECM are abasolute, they are doing their effects.. or they are not. Small neuts not very bonused would be doing a BIT of effect, but very likely not enough to hamper a BC for example.. not even dream of a battleship.
On the minmatar ewar I agree completely. 2 target painter bonuses, one that basically cannto be used if youw ant to use the web bonus.. is HORRIBLE design |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
655
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Posted - 2013.11.07 17:57:00 -
[42] - Quote
Lidia Caderu wrote:Just noticed that Keres as ship that has bonus to warp disruption has to small scan resolution...
Too small? Its less than 10% worse than minmatar. the standard deviation for gallente.
Altough the sentinel is HIGHER than the normal racial flavor dictates. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
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Posted - 2013.11.08 15:39:00 -
[43] - Quote
Lidia Caderu wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Lidia Caderu wrote:Just noticed that Keres as ship that has bonus to warp disruption has to small scan resolution... Too small? Its less than 10% worse than minmatar. the standard deviation for gallente. Altough the sentinel is HIGHER than the normal racial flavor dictates. Bad for catching small stuff. As Keres has bonus to warp disruption it will be used to point stuff, such scan resolution is ok for other Electronic attack ships but not for Keres.
That never stopped the arazu from doign its work.
You cannto have EVERYTHING. If you think that is a problem.. try to check how you an use a Target paint RANGE bonus, on a ship whose primary function is to WEB other ships at UNDER max normal range of target painters. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
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Posted - 2013.11.11 09:59:00 -
[44] - Quote
Aurora Fatalis wrote:Since the SoE ships got virus strength + scanning bonuses on a combat hull, could we perhaps also see Virus Strength on these? Or even on all EWAR ships? It would be representative of their "advanced electronics", after all, even without any scanning bonus.
I'm imagining hacking Falcons jamming the first few pirates that arrive to give themselves some more time :D
Does nto match much with clear pure PVP oriented ships. Coudl see it on Recons, but not on these that are basically high end tacklers. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
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